Which type of carrageenan?

Acrylic Marbling
ScottC
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Which type of carrageenan?

Postby ScottC » Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:32 pm

Hi Everyone,

I'm attempting to learn to marble with carrageenan and acrylic colours. I'm having trouble with the size, though, I think... I'm following instructions that I've read a few times online and in books: 2 tbsp + 2 tsp per gallon of water, blend, leave until the bubbles have gone. I've bought two different batches of carrageenan, but neither of them seem right; or, perhaps I'm doing something else wrong.

The first batch was labelled 'Kappa Carrageenan'. It looked OK when I made the size. It dissolved nicely, and seemed to have a good consistency. It was odourless and completely white powder, becoming completely clear after dissolving. I wiped down my paper with a sponge soaked in 10% potassium aluminium sulphate and allowed it to dry until damp, but not dry. The paint floated, the patterns formed, and when I picked up the sheet it looked good. However, it seems that the carrageenan formed a thick, quite tough layer on the surface of the paper. It couldn't be washed or even rubbed off easily. If it was washed with sufficient force to remove the carrageenan, the paint was also removed.

The second batch was simply labelled 'Carrageenan' and it was a grey powdered that smelled strongly of the sea. I assume this is simply the whole washed seaweed, dried and powdered. When I made it up as above, it did not dissolve at all... it just sank to the bottom. I boiled it briefly and it partially dissolved, but lots of 'stuff' settled to the bottom. When boiled, it smelled so strongly of the ocean that I don't think I could stand to use it. When it cooled, it formed a completely solid chunk in my pot (I had to cut it up with a knife to get rid of it).

I've read in a few places that when purified carrageenan is used, it needs to be 'iota-carrageenan'... I can only find this in small quantities and it is incredibly expensive (compared to the two I mentioned above). Does anyone have any feedback about it?

Thanks.

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johnacsyen
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Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby johnacsyen » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:17 am

I use the lambda type of carrageenan
John Ang
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ScottC
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby ScottC » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:55 am

Does it adhere to the paper? Is that normal? The type I'm using forms a firm layer probably a couple of millimetres thick. The paint seems to stick better to the gelled carrageenan than the paper.

permtilperm
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Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 9:31 am

Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby permtilperm » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:04 am

Have a look at this article describeing the rheological properties of the 3 commom carrageenan types.
http://www.agargel.com.br/carrageenan-tec.html

Normally for mabling on paper the Lambda type is used.
Myself I've had problems that the colours did not fix well enough to the paper - so in desperation I tried with Kappa-type, but a slightly weaker solution, and with paper prepared with potassium aluminium sulfate (alum).
Then for sure the colours fixed (!) - but the draining of paper became much more difficult 'cause of the gelling. And drying took a loooong time.

The results were ok - but consumption of size was formidable because each sheet was covered with 1 - 1,5 mm carragenan gel!

It is possibe to tune colours and additives in such a way that normal lambda type could be used.
Good luck!
- - -
Erik Haagensen
Oslia 17
NO-2550 Os i Østerdalen
Norway

ScottC
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby ScottC » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:37 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the replies so far.

Can anyone outline exactly (i.e. brand, source and how to prepare) what they use, successfully, for paper stock, mordant, and size? I think I'm OK with paint/ink?

I hope that doesn't sound too demanding! People obviously can get this to work, so I'd really just like to start from a point that I know should work, before I try any tuning or optimisation so that I know that my technique is OK.

Regards,

Scott.

Marblemad
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby Marblemad » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:41 pm

Hi
Sorry I can't help with the paper questions but I do know that the only successful carrageenan is lambda
Only drawback is that it only usually lasts about 5-6 days before the smell starts to get overpowering
At that point the paint does break down like it's been shattered
I found it quite difficult to locate but was lucky enough to find a supplier in uk

myra_myra
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Re: Which type of carrageenan?

Postby myra_myra » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:08 pm

Marblemad wrote:Hi
Sorry I can't help with the paper questions but I do know that the only successful carrageenan is lambda
Only drawback is that it only usually lasts about 5-6 days before the smell starts to get overpowering
At that point the paint does break down like it's been shattered
I found it quite difficult to locate but was lucky enough to find a supplier in uk



PLEASE!

please can you tell us the name of your UK lambda supplier??


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